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Oil leak from fan
Posted: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:18
On my recent holiday in the Czech Republic my T613-4 Mi Long developed a severe oil leak, ending up with the car pouring out a total of 7 litres of expensive synthetic oil on our journey home from Karlovy Vary to Ballerup!
The oil comes out from the fan housing, part of it coming out on the back but most of running out between the fan housing and the cylinders. The oil coming out through the fan entrance at the rear is contaminating the various belts, which again distribute it out over the entire engine compartment. What an incredible mess! And some of the oil coming out drips onto the exhaust silencer where it burns and creates lots of smoke!
All in all, I cannot drive the car before this is fixed.
As far as I can see, the leak must originate from one of the oil seal rings on the fan axle. So I have put my contact in Praha on the job of finding the various parts needed.
Now, my questions to all of you are:
1. Is this a common problem? My contact suggested that this was a known fault.
2. Are there any precautions to take in order to prevent the problem coming back?
3. Does the engine need to come out, or can it be dismantled while in the car?
4. What does it take to remove the engine, if necessary?
Posted: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:52
Your problem is quite common. I have experience with two KATi engines from my own and one of them was very problematical in this fact. It was never so dramatical, but it leaks as crazy once. What you need is:
Demount intake chamber both parts
Change two Shaft sealings /gufero in czech language/
Outter one is 30x52x10 SI ČSN 02 9401.0
Inner one is 40x56x12 SI ČSN 02 9401.0
2) not realy, you can preventivelly change it when beeing little bit wet
3) needs to be removed out of the car
4) usualy one working day is enough to fix this problem (8hrs)
Some teoretical information is, that this problem is causing -not straight anymore- shaft or little bit shaking belt pulley.
Posted: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:33
Thank you very much for reply! That was sure helpful.
But please tell me why I need to take out the engine. As far as I can see, it should be possible (though perhaps a bit difficult) to remove the air intake and manifolds with the engine still in the car.
I have been told that it is very easy to remove the engine from a T613, but I have never tried it. I suppose you need to first remove the rear panel and bumper, and then place some kind of trolley underneath the engine itself and drag it rearwards away from the car? Or do you lower the engine out underneath the car?
Anyway, it sounds like a perfect time to check the clutch too! Did you know that the clutch originates from the Robur trucks?
Posted: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:40
I had a similar problem, but shaft sealings were allright.
Main problem was a bearing. It had been so destroyed that whole shaft was shaking and that oil was leaking everywhere
So when you're about to dismantle the cooling fan, change bearing also. My recommentadion.
Posted: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 21:49
Bo, you cant de-mount the upper "pipes" on injection engine without pulling the darling out of car. Carb. engine aloves you to do the upper part of engine repairable but i engines no. Its´ easy - there is no space above.
You dont have a service cookook? try: aek4470.finalnet.cz
Engine is going out of the car, like baby out of mum. But Cesarian section is not possible!! And - its´ much faster.
Posted: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:47
Thanks a lot Eda, you clearly know much more about this than I do. Even though I have been driving T613's for over 6 years now, I have never had any serious engine trouble.
We (a couple of Danish Tatra owners) have been looking very deeply into the engine compartment, to try to figure out why the engine HAS to come out. It does appear to be possible to disassemble the intake system with the engine in the car. But if you say that it isn't, then I will obviously take your word for it!!!
While I am waiting for my spare parts to arrive (the aforementioned other Tatra owner has promised to bring them back with him from his ongoing summerholiday i the Czech Republic), I will try to construct some kind of rolling table to put under the car. I am looking forward to the "quick birth" you descripe!
I do have a workshop manual for a T613-4 Mi, but as I am not good at Czech, I need to have my dictionary along with me and it tends to go very slow...
Even though my Tatra is supposed to be my daily driver, I don't have any transportation problems, as I have borrowed a slightly rough but very well driving white T613S. I also have a Ford Zodiac and a DAF 44, though they are mostly just hobby cars. And if everything else failes, I can probably be allowed to use my wife's old but faithfull Ford Scorpio Ghia. In other words, I have all the time in the world to get the Tatra going again
Posted: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:19
I am very happy to inform you all that you are in fact WRONG
! It IS
entirely possible to dismantle the injection system and intake manifold, while the engine is still in the car!
I know it, because I just did it! It was not even difficult, except that I hurt my back while reaching for the bolts in front of the engine compartment.
So now I have new bearings and seals in my fan. Only problem was that the car was still leaking oil extensively after the job was completed.....
Luckily this was only due to a defective seal ring in one of the oil tube connectors to the cam axles. But now the car stays dry!
Posted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:22
Congratulation Bo, did you take a pictures from these - never seen before - disassembly? How long did it takes, till you were on that bearing etc.
Posted: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:30
Of course I took pictures. Otherwise I could not be sure you would believe me!
The disassembly of the injection system and intake manifolds took less than 4 1/2 hours. But that included eating chocolate bisquits and singing along to the radio too.
The air intake chamber is mounted with 16 allen bolts that can only be unscrewed with an angled handkey, due the limited space above the engine. But they should come off quite easily in a matter of minutes. The bolts that hold the air intake tubes (from the air intake chamber to the intake manifolds) are slightly more difficult to access no matter if the engine is in the car or outside. The nuts that hold the intake manifolds are a piece of cake.
The biggest challenge was actually not the disassembly of the intake and injection system. It was loosening the big nut holding the fan that caused us most problems. The workshop handbook prescribes the use of a special holding tool, which we obviously did not have. In the end we succeeded in inventing a very low tech solution (comprising the use of a socket extension and a block of wood).
Please note the difference between the 2 pictures of the cylinders and oil cooler before and after being cleaned. No wonder the engine was running very hot!
Posted: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:47
Bo: Thank you VERY much for the photos they surely interest me as my M95 will be undergoing such repairs shortly...
Posted: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:31
Congratl. Bo. You did it. I though, that vent will be a big problem, btw. many of the special tatra tools called PRM XXXXX are changable with an standard blocks of wood or soccer ball pumps etc. sometimes. Once more, congatulations and good times with your tatra!
Posted: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 21:25
Hello guys, hows the regenerated tatra working?
Posted: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 22:57
The car actually drove magnificently for 6 months, through winter and all (and Danish winters are rough!). Not a drop of oil spilt. But as soon as the weather started getting better, the Tatra got worse
During Easter the petrol pump gave up, and I had to work out which type it is, and how to get a replacement. On the injection Tatras, the high pressure pump is situated inside the right tank (which I had just filled the day before) - what a mess.
With the car back on the road, I then decided it was time to change the exhaust, as the car was getting exceedingly noisy. That should at least be an easy task!
It took a full day just to get the old one off. And then I had to spend ages modifying the new exhaust support brackets that I had bought. They had been made especially in 1.5 mm stainless steel to prevent them from breaking, which - as we all know - is the no. 1 most common reason for Tatras loosing thir exhausts
The bracket were nice and solid, they just didn't fit. But I MADE them fit....
The very next day, the clutch release bearing gave up
I have not had a lot of spare time this Spring, due to many other commitments. So now the car has been standing for a long time with the engine out, getting a new clutch plate, clutch cover og release bearing. - And also getting some welding done in a hard-to-see area. However, now I hope - I SINCERELY HOPE - that it will be back on the road again within a day or two AND that it will now be a reliable and trustworthy car again for a foreseeavle future.
I have taken a few pictures of the engine-out job, and I will post them on this site, when I get finished and have time to spare.